1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,000 A housewife who convinced millions to share their sightings. 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,240 Coral Lorenzen is one of the earliest people who said 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,680 there is something serious about these objects in the sky. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,020 A scientist who uncovered shocking new evidence 5 00:00:17,020 --> 00:00:19,080 about a crashed UFO. 6 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:21,680 Stand-in Friedman, more than any one other person, 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,120 opened up Roswell for the rest of the world. 8 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,360 An astronomer who documented close encounters 9 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:30,120 for the US military. 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,260 My father really was convinced that there was just something 11 00:00:33,260 --> 00:00:36,700 that was too legitimate to ignore. 12 00:00:36,700 --> 00:00:40,760 Ancient astronaut theorist, George O'Souklos, 13 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:42,540 author David Childress, 14 00:00:42,540 --> 00:00:45,380 and former British Ministry of Defense officer, 15 00:00:45,380 --> 00:00:49,880 Nick Pope, have come together to examine the groundbreaking work 16 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,580 of pioneering researchers, investigators, 17 00:00:53,580 --> 00:00:57,180 and whistleblowers who dared to challenge the scientific 18 00:00:57,980 --> 00:01:00,780 establishment and change the world. 19 00:01:00,780 --> 00:01:02,280 Without Jacques Vellet, 20 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,320 we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. 21 00:01:05,320 --> 00:01:09,960 But does the final chapter of their story remain to be written? 22 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:13,160 Will it soon be revealed, once and for all, 23 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,840 that Earth is being visited by extraterrestrials? 24 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,600 You have to wonder, where does this all lead 25 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:24,040 and will we soon come closer to the truth? 26 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,280 There is a doorway in the universe. 27 00:01:31,780 --> 00:01:34,640 Beyond it is the promise of truth. 28 00:01:36,020 --> 00:01:40,420 It demands we question everything we have ever been taught. 29 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:44,760 The evidence is all around us. 30 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,800 The future is right before our eyes. 31 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,600 We are not alone. 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,300 We have never been alone. 33 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,780 I'm excited to be here with you guys, 34 00:02:00,780 --> 00:02:03,780 talking about the modern UFO phenomenon. 35 00:02:03,780 --> 00:02:06,580 The paradigm has certainly shifted, 36 00:02:06,580 --> 00:02:10,280 because 20 years ago it was always deny, deny, deny. 37 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,160 So, you know, I think that we are living 38 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,500 in incredibly exciting times. 39 00:02:15,500 --> 00:02:16,900 We are, absolutely. 40 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:21,860 And this, of course, is part of a wider, interconnected story. 41 00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:25,040 Revelation after Revelation from the guise of the Earth. 42 00:02:25,060 --> 00:02:28,260 Revelation after Revelation from the government itself. 43 00:02:28,260 --> 00:02:31,600 I also would offer that ancient aliens 44 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,800 has contributed to this paradigm shift, 45 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,800 where people are now comfortable in telling their stories, 46 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:42,280 their experiences that they've had, 47 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,280 the so-called zeitgeist has changed in our favor. 48 00:02:48,620 --> 00:02:50,620 And I really think that with whatever is going on 49 00:02:50,620 --> 00:02:52,720 in the modern UFO phenomenon, 50 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,600 it is directly connected to ancient times. 51 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,720 Well, the UFO phenomenon has been going on 52 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,440 for thousands of years, 53 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,360 with historical texts talking about UFOs. 54 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,560 Even in the Middle Ages, 55 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,120 you find stories that were printed 56 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,760 in what they used to call broadsheets of UFOs, 57 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,800 like, for example, in Nuremberg or in Basel. 58 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,800 And they actually have reproductions 59 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:21,040 of what they saw up in the skies. 60 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,240 Clearly, they did not have photographs back then, 61 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,760 but they had drawings. 62 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,760 And the way these things are being reported today 63 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,120 is because we have the technology. 64 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:35,720 People have reported strange sightings in the sky 65 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,400 since the earliest recorded history. 66 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,120 For thousands of years, 67 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,360 such encounters were conveyed through oral traditions, 68 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,120 texts, and artwork. 69 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,080 But then, in 1839, 70 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,800 French artist Louis Degueur provided humankind 71 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,840 with a powerful new technology, the Degueurotype. 72 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,880 It was the first publicly available photographic process. 73 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,720 And suddenly, people were able to share the exact images 74 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:06,600 they saw with their own eyes. 75 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:11,080 Just three decades later, 76 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,240 the world got its first alleged UFO photo. 77 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,680 The very first photo that we have of a UFO 78 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,080 is of a huge cylindrical craft 79 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:24,280 over Mount Washington in New Hampshire, 80 00:04:24,280 --> 00:04:28,000 taken in 1870, right at the very beginning of photography. 81 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,920 You see this cloud formation up in Mount Washington, 82 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:38,200 and you see this very obvious cigar-shaped object. 83 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:43,080 Of course, many UFO reports describe cigar-shaped objects. 84 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:46,080 This is photographic, and it turns out it is. 85 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:55,120 As technology evolved over the late 1800s and early 1900s, 86 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,320 so did humankind's understanding 87 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,120 of many long-held assumptions. 88 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,960 Instead of linking strange events in the sky with the divine, 89 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,120 a few inquisitive minds proposed a profound new explanation 90 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,760 that intelligent beings from other planets 91 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,880 who possess technology far beyond our own 92 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,760 were visiting our world. 93 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,640 One of the first to investigate this possibility 94 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:25,480 was an American writer and researcher named Charles Fort. 95 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:29,800 People had written about strange lights in the sky before, 96 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,560 but Fort was probably the first person in modern life 97 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:40,680 who assembled the stories into his books in a systematic way. 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,000 Fort saw it as his job to poke holes 99 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,000 in the straight story of science 100 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:48,920 as it was developing at that time, 101 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,280 and it demonstrated that there was a whole world 102 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:55,080 of strange, unexplained, persistent phenomena. 103 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,960 In 1919, Fort published his landmark collection 104 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,120 of anomalous incidents and strange sightings. 105 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,840 He called it the Book of the Damned. 106 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,840 Now, what he meant by that is all of the data 107 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:13,240 that he incorporated and put into that book 108 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,680 was damned by the scientific world of his time. 109 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,680 That's the whole point. 110 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,680 This was data that no one would look at. 111 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:26,920 Today, the term Fortian continues to be used to describe events 112 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,720 that cannot be explained by conventional science. 113 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:34,240 But it would take 25 years and a world war 114 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,600 for researchers to examine Fort's accounts more closely. 115 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,200 So a lot of the modern UFO phenomenon 116 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:45,600 really started during the Second World War. 117 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,280 We had a couple of things, aspects to this. 118 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:52,840 The Battle of Los Angeles, an amazing event 119 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:57,400 where upwards of 1,400 anti-aircraft shells 120 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,600 were fired into the air at something 121 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,160 that had been hovering over Los Angeles. 122 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,880 There's a photo as well as a classic photo. 123 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,600 It was on the front page of the LA Times. 124 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,560 Yeah, then you have these pilots 125 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,480 who see strange balls of light called Foo Fighters. 126 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:19,560 And I couldn't talk about UFOs without, of course, 127 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,960 mentioning one word, Roswell. 128 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,040 In the military, this is a press release 129 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,680 which says we've recovered a flying disk. 130 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,560 So you have these events coming thick and fast, 131 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:33,600 but who's collating it all? 132 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:37,840 We should never forget that maybe we have it easy now. 133 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,680 We have this vast body of work that we can build on. 134 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:44,720 And one of the great pioneers of this subject 135 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,480 who did so much to bring it into the mainstream 136 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,160 was Carl Lerenson. 137 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,400 By the 1950s, thousands of UFO sightings 138 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,200 were being reported around the country. 139 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,080 But while most dismiss these accounts 140 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,680 as little more than curiosity, 141 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,920 one woman in Arizona took them seriously, 142 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:09,600 a 35-year-old housewife named Carl Lerenson. 143 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,640 When Carl Lerenson was nine years old, 144 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,040 she had her first UFO sighting in a playground 145 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,520 with two friends. 146 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,400 She stated that the craft reminded her 147 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:25,720 of a parachute without strings. 148 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,880 After her experiences, what she wanted to do 149 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,600 was kind of nail this down on a scientific basis, 150 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,160 not just woo-woo stuff. 151 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,920 Working out of their home, 152 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,920 Coral and her husband Jim 153 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,200 founded the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization, 154 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:45,840 or APRO, the world's first public investigation of UFOs. 155 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:51,200 Using little more than her wits and a telephone, 156 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,040 Coral collected thousands of unpublished reports 157 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,960 from witnesses around the country 158 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,200 to rule out planes and unusual weather 159 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,920 as the cause of the sightings. 160 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,120 Coral judiciously crossed reference these accounts 161 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,480 by contacting local airfields and military bases. 162 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,400 What she was able to do was show 163 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,280 there were commonalities among UFO sightings, 164 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,360 there were things that UFOs did, 165 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:20,600 and that observers saw that stretched across different cultures 166 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:22,320 in different parts of the United States. 167 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,440 Eventually, Coral's organization 168 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,800 grew to have thousands of members 169 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:30,600 and collected reports from around the world. 170 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,640 The organization started out small, 171 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,800 but as its reputation grew, 172 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,200 she was able to attract many scientists 173 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:45,200 and also people in the Air Force from other countries. 174 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,200 Considered one of the best civilian research groups 175 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:51,200 of its time, Coral Aram. 176 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,120 Coral Aramson oversaw the aerial phenomena 177 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,560 research organization for more than three decades, 178 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:01,360 until her death in 1988. 179 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,360 She set up this group with thousands of members 180 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,680 and she was really pulling all this together. 181 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:15,280 They had representatives in different states in the US, 182 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,160 in different countries too. 183 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,640 Of course, APRO as a group wound up in 1988, I think it was, 184 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,080 but of course, MUFON, the mutual UFO network, 185 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,960 is a spin-off of APRO. 186 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,720 So she was really cataloging a wide variety of UFO activity 187 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:34,880 all over the world. 188 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,960 What was the reaction back then 189 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,120 when she would call the Air Force bases? 190 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,880 Would they readily talk to her or would they stonewall her? 191 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,360 She hit some brick walls 192 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,720 and people were probably saying in the military, 193 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,040 who the heck is this? 194 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:49,960 But she was genacious. 195 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,520 She was, look, here's this woman blazing this trail, 196 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,920 starting almost this whole field of study 197 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,240 which we now see today. 198 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:06,240 Nick, can you tell us about your work 199 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,560 at the British Ministry of Defence? 200 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,720 Sure, I worked there for 21 years. 201 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,600 And from 1991 through to 1994, 202 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,880 I ran their small UFO program. 203 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:23,680 My job was to research and investigate the phenomenon 204 00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:25,840 to determine whether there was anything 205 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,320 of any defence significance, any threat, 206 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,880 anything of more general scientific interest. 207 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,320 Were you the first person to have that position 208 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,520 or was there somebody before you? 209 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,000 Oh, many, many people before me. 210 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,760 We had been looking at this on an ad hoc basis 211 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,760 since the Second World War. 212 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,600 And what were some of the challenges that you were faced with 213 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:53,640 in order to determine what was a valid sighting? 214 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:57,240 I mean, was there a certain protocol to the work you did? 215 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,960 Well, there were many challenges, 216 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:04,600 but the protocols were actually quite set. 217 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:09,240 We had a standard methodology very closely modelled 218 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:13,280 on the United States methodologies developed in part 219 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,080 by Dr J. Allen Hynek. 220 00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:21,400 In 1948, Dr J. Allen Hynek was working as the Professor 221 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,040 of Physics and Astronomy at Ohio State University 222 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,440 when he received an unusual job offer. 223 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:33,280 The U.S. Air Force approached him to investigate UFO sightings. 224 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,880 Reluctantly, he joined the special operation, 225 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:40,080 which would become known as Project Blue Book. 226 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,400 At the beginning, I think my father thought 227 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,240 this would be a few weekends' worth of work 228 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,040 just to poo-poo some flying saucer reports 229 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,040 from, you know, Mrs. Jones out in Poughkeepsie. 230 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,280 Despite his skepticism, 231 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,280 Dr Hynek approached the assignment with an open mind. 232 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,280 As part of his investigations, 233 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:05,680 he pioneered new ways of studying aerial phenomena. 234 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,200 Rather than coming through reports, 235 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,160 Dr Hynek personally investigated sightings 236 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,200 and interviewed eyewitnesses across the country. 237 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:17,600 Based on his research, 238 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:21,840 he developed a new system to categorize UFO sightings. 239 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,000 We came up with a classification system 240 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,080 of close encounters of the first, second, and third kind. 241 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,920 A close encounter of the first kind 242 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:35,480 is when you see an object within, say, 500 feet. 243 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,440 A close encounter of the second kind 244 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,720 is when there's some kind of physical trace, 245 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,680 maybe some irradiated dirt. 246 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,080 A close encounter of the third kind 247 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,560 is where you actually have contact 248 00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:49,080 with some type of entity. 249 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,320 Dr Hynek's meticulous application 250 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,560 of the scientific method in his investigations 251 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:01,440 enabled him to dismiss many alleged sightings 252 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,640 as aircraft, meteors, or even stars. 253 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,960 But curiously, of the more than 12,000 UFO sightings, 254 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,800 Dr Hynek's office investigated, 255 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:17,040 701 remain categorized as unidentified. 256 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,320 What my father was fascinated by 257 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,320 were this irreducible core of 5% of cases 258 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,640 that could not be explained. 259 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:33,120 There was just something that was too legitimate to ignore. 260 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,320 For many, many years, 261 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:41,400 Hynek really just played the Air Force's party line on UFOs. 262 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,480 But finally, as you're really getting into the 1960s, 263 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,440 1966, and 1967, 264 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,480 Hynek makes his public position clear 265 00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:54,120 that this is a serious phenomenon. 266 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,760 That set up a really difficult tension 267 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,840 because the Air Force was getting more sort of stonewalling 268 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,960 in their attitude, and my father really was convinced 269 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,200 that there was a phenomena, 270 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,120 but really wanted the word to get out. 271 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,080 But rather than expand the investigation, 272 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:16,080 in 1969, the Air Force abruptly shut down Project Blue Book. 273 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,120 In the years that followed, 274 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,400 Hynek became an outspoken supporter of UFO research, 275 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,600 publishing numerous books on the subject until his death in 1986. 276 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,440 Hynek became increasingly disillusioned 277 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,160 with the Air Force policy on this, 278 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,280 and, yes, he was frustrated. 279 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:43,160 These people have no interest in going public 280 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,320 and saying there might be extraterrestrials. 281 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,800 And he's privy, as you were, to classify documents. 282 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,520 And, you know, you have to have a security clearance. 283 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,920 He must have had that, too. 284 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,440 So there were things that he could not talk about. 285 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:56,640 Wouldn't you think? 286 00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:58,200 I'm sure that's the case. 287 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,240 He was someone on the inside, 288 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:06,120 and he probably had a deeper understanding of this phenomenon 289 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:09,920 than almost anyone else involved at the time. 290 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,760 And Jack Valle is another fascinating character, 291 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:17,320 a colleague, of course, of Dr J. Allen Hynek 292 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,680 and two of the early giants in this field. 293 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,840 Without Jack Valle, Dr J. Allen Hynek, 294 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:26,720 we probably wouldn't be sitting around this table 295 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,120 having this discussion. 296 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:32,520 Jack Valle went back into folklore. 297 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,320 He was one of the first to see, 298 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:36,240 and certainly the first to popularize, 299 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,600 that parallel between these folkloric accounts 300 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,440 and the more modern accounts of UFOs 301 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,520 and specifically alien abduction. 302 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,000 Half of my family comes from Austria, 303 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,080 and there are many folkloric tales of fairy folk 304 00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:53,960 where a shepherd either disappears 305 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:57,720 or a shepherd goes to sleep and doesn't wake up for a week. 306 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:02,000 Even though in his mind, only two hours have elapsed, 307 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,280 so I think it's wonderful that Valle looked at those stories 308 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,160 and put them into the context 309 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,320 of potential extraterrestrial encounters. 310 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,880 Jack is probably our greatest living scientist 311 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,000 and scholar of UFO studies. 312 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,440 He wrote one of the most influential books 313 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,760 that figures into the UFO field, 314 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,080 which is called Passport to Magonia, 315 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,040 where he ventured the theory that folklore 316 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,880 all throughout the ages matches up extraordinarily well 317 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,720 with contemporary UFO accounts. 318 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,720 In 1961, Dr. Jean Valle was working as an astronomer 319 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,760 with the French Space Committee 320 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,920 when he noticed a mysterious object orbiting the Earth. 321 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:56,600 This event sparked a lifelong interest in the UFO phenomenon, 322 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,440 which he continues to investigate 323 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:00,280 more than six decades later. 324 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,160 Valle started out in the mid-1960s 325 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,400 working closely with Alan Hynick, 326 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,920 doing what you might call standard UFO analysis back then, 327 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:11,400 looking at various sightings. 328 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,840 While working with Hynick, 329 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,920 Valle boldly proposed a profound new theory 330 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,520 to explain UFO sightings and other paranormal experiences. 331 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:26,440 He argued that many UFOs seem to be manipulating 332 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:29,800 the space-time continuum and suggested 333 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,440 they may not have come from another planet, 334 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:34,200 but from another dimension. 335 00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:40,160 Dr. Jean Valle was years ahead of his time. 336 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,760 When everyone else was looking at the nuts and bolts 337 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,720 of UFOs and their occupants, 338 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:51,720 Jean Valle was interested in the interdimensional phenomena 339 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:55,000 related to UFO reports. 340 00:18:55,800 --> 00:19:00,280 Jacques really helped the field accept the idea 341 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,120 of truly exotic solutions. 342 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,600 Once you really dig into the UFO phenomena, 343 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,440 it's very hard to find one solution 344 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,120 that fits all of the cases that have been reported. 345 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,640 J. Alan Hynick, Jacques Valle were pioneers in this field, 346 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,600 and an interesting piece of film trivia, 347 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,080 the classic sci-fi movie, 348 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,080 close encounters of the third kind. 349 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,480 It's a homage to J. Alan Hynick, 350 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,320 and Spielberg gave him a little cameo in the movie. 351 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,760 In that wonderful scene where the mothership 352 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,880 comes down at the end, he's the guy with the pipe. 353 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,240 And actually Jacques Valle is depicted in that movie too, 354 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,080 in a sense. 355 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,200 Isn't he the French UFO expert in the movie 356 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:50,760 who then uses music and tones 357 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,560 to communicate with the extraterrestrials? 358 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:53,400 Yes, indeed. 359 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,800 And a lot of people don't know this. 360 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,800 Close encounters of the third kind, 361 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,760 it's based on the story of one of the great pioneers 362 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:02,600 in this field. 363 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,680 Another pioneer in this field was Robert Emanager, 364 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,240 who wrote the book UFOs Past, Present, and Future. 365 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,600 Well, there's a fascinating story about him. 366 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,600 He was basically promised that he would get film footage 367 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,480 of a UFO landing at an air force base. 368 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,120 Really? 369 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:30,200 In 1972, filmmaker Robert Emanager 370 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,440 was hired by President Richard Nixon's chief of staff, 371 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:37,320 H.R. Haldeman, to produce a documentary film. 372 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:39,520 The committee to reelect the president 373 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,640 wanted to make a scientific documentary 374 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:45,880 that would support Nixon, 375 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,800 a documentary about some secret project 376 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,000 that the government's been working on 377 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,240 that can be declassified. 378 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:01,360 But as soon as Emanager started on the project, 379 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:04,320 it took an unexpected turn. 380 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,200 Bob Emanager was asked, 381 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,120 how would you like to make a documentary on UFOs? 382 00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:12,880 And Bob Emanager was stunned. 383 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,280 He told me at his home, 384 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:19,000 I didn't know anything about UFOs, I was shocked. 385 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,400 They said if we would make the documentary, 386 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:28,120 we would be given 600 feet of 16 millimeter film 387 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,440 shot at Haldeman Air Force Base of a UFO landing there. 388 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:34,640 So Emanager agreed to do it. 389 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,600 Emanager said about producing a documentary 390 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,120 that would present the public with authentic footage 391 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,360 of a UFO. 392 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:46,200 But when it came time to receive 393 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,880 the sensational materials he'd been promised, 394 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,480 the government had a change of heart. 395 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:53,920 Their white host contact said, 396 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:58,640 Bob, I hate to tell you, but the film has been withdrawn. 397 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,360 Bob Emanager was crushed, he said, why? 398 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:03,760 With everything we've done, 399 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,040 with everything that's in place, why would you do this? 400 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,880 And he said, Watergate. 401 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,560 They said, we can't allow you to use the film. 402 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,840 You have to do your own version of it. 403 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,520 Something that might have happened in the past 404 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:18,160 may happen in the future. 405 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:19,360 So they did that. 406 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,720 It was a documentary called UFOs Has Present Future, 407 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,000 and they also had a book by the same name. 408 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,600 Even without the military's footage, 409 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,480 the 1974 release of Emanager's documentary 410 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,360 caused a stir among the UFO community. 411 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:38,480 And many believe the alleged encounter 412 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,840 at Holloman Air Force Base influenced 413 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:42,640 a much more famous film. 414 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:46,240 The documentary was done in 1975. 415 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:48,360 Steven Spielberg's Close Encounters of the Third Kind 416 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:50,480 came out in 1977. 417 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,960 So when you see Close Encounters of the Third Kind, 418 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,360 it's the Holloman Air Force Base story. 419 00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,760 Just change the location, it's exactly what the story was. 420 00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:03,840 On December 14th, 1977, 421 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,840 Close Encounters of the Third Kind 422 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,920 opened in wide release across America, 423 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,520 grossing over $10 million its first week. 424 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,840 But could it have been based on an actual event? 425 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,840 This is a fascinating story of a UFO landing 426 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,480 at an air force base. 427 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,680 And look, the military themselves maybe 428 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,640 can't just come out and say this 429 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,320 because implicit in that admission 430 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,520 would be an admission that they lied about this for decades. 431 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:40,440 But I think also that we can handle this, this truth. 432 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,120 A long time ago, people would say, 433 00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,320 well, how do you deal with the skeptics? 434 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,880 Well, one of the pioneers who unfortunately is no longer with us 435 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,400 because he passed away only a few years ago 436 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,120 is Dr. Stanton Friedman, the nuclear physicist. 437 00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,680 Stanton Friedman was an absolute powerhouse in this field. 438 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,920 Over the course of that career, he gave, 439 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,120 goodness, I don't have the figure, it's hundreds, 440 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:09,160 I think it's thousands of individual presentations 441 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:14,240 at schools, colleges, all sorts of different places. 442 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,080 And he was a crusader and evangelist for this subject. 443 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:25,840 And I couldn't talk about Stanton without, of course, mentioning Roswell. 444 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,800 As interest in the UFO phenomenon grew, 445 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,240 some of the nation's top scientists began their own investigations, 446 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,480 including nuclear physicist Dr. Stanton Friedman. 447 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:44,360 One of Dr. Friedman's most significant contributions 448 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:47,720 to the study of UFOs was his research 449 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,840 into an incident in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947, 450 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,480 when a flying saucer allegedly crashed 451 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:59,640 and was swiftly covered up by the US military. 452 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,200 Stanton Friedman's the man who interviewed Jesse Marcel Sr., 453 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,680 who was the most important of the Roswell witnesses. 454 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,080 Major Jesse Marcel was the head intelligence officer 455 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,440 at Roswell Army Airfield. 456 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:14,720 He and Brigadier General Roger Ramey, 457 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,720 head of the Eighth Air Force, 458 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,680 were the officer's task with transporting the debris 459 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,880 recovered from the Roswell crash site 460 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,480 to Fort Worth, Texas to present to the media. 461 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,720 In his interview with Stanton Friedman, 462 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,800 Major Marcel made a shocking admission. 463 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,640 He claimed that General Ramey replaced the real Roswell debris. 464 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,920 Major Marcel explained how they swapped the Roswell debris 465 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,440 with radar material from a radar balloon, 466 00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,240 and he had to swear that's what he saw. 467 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:51,440 So the point is that Stanton unearthed a lot of this material 468 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,080 and was the first person to make it public. 469 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,880 Stanton alleged that the military was engaged 470 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,160 in a widespread cover-up of the existence 471 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,680 of extraterrestrial life. 472 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,720 A scandal so big, he called it the Cosmic Watergate. 473 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,240 If you pick up a UFO book written in the 50s, 474 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,720 if it's got an index and you think, 475 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,320 oh, look out, Roswell, you won't find it. 476 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:15,480 It's not there. 477 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,400 The rediscovery of Roswell is really credited 478 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:20,440 to Stanton Friedman. 479 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:21,480 Interesting. 480 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,640 You know, we've actually been working all these years 481 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:31,960 with one of the earliest modern UFO researchers 482 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,640 and pioneers that exist. 483 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,920 She's a specialist in cattle mutilations. 484 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,040 She's a specialist in UFOs. 485 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,600 And Roswell, our own Linda Moulton-How. 486 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,000 For more than four decades, 487 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,880 investigative reporter Linda Moulton-How 488 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,320 has been researching a potential extraterrestrial presence 489 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:53,160 on Earth. 490 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,240 She has received numerous awards 491 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,520 for journalistic excellence, 492 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,960 including an Emmy for her 1980 documentary 493 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:06,480 on cattle mutilations titled A Strange Harvest. 494 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,040 Today, she is the reporter and editor 495 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,760 of the website, EarthFiles.com, 496 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,840 which contains an archive of nearly 3,000 497 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,920 in-depth UFO reports. 498 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,960 She's actually waiting to speak with us 499 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:22,480 with a video call. 500 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,320 Hi, Linda. Good to see you. 501 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,920 Hi, guys. It's great to see you. 502 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,520 So tell us, please, what got you started in this field? 503 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,840 I am a professional TV producer 504 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,920 and an investigative reporter. 505 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,360 In September of 1979, I was director of special projects 506 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:44,360 at the CBS station in Denver, Colorado. 507 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,040 And late in that summer, there were headlines 508 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,920 in the Denver Post and the Rocky Mountain News 509 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,400 about bloodless, trackless animal mutilations 510 00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:57,240 in Colorado and surrounding states. 511 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,600 I wanted to find out what did this mean, 512 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,480 a bloodless, trackless animal mutilation? 513 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,040 This gets me involved, and we do this 514 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,800 for my film A Strange Harvest. 515 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,800 There was a classic pattern from case to case to case, 516 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,360 where these animals have the same tissue taken, 517 00:28:16,360 --> 00:28:19,800 ear, eye, tongue, jaw, genitals, and rectum. 518 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,480 And those were excisions that really baffled 519 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,200 the sheriffs and the veterinarians 520 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,120 because the bone where the cut was made glistened, 521 00:28:29,120 --> 00:28:32,880 like somebody had melted and then polished. 522 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,160 Right. This would imply some type of external technology. 523 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,880 I'm wondering in your research, 524 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,560 with the hundreds of people you've spoken to, 525 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:45,800 not just the ranchers, but fellow journalists, 526 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,640 broadcasters, the veterinarians, 527 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,280 what is your bottom-lying conclusions? 528 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,200 Who's doing this and why? 529 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,360 Well, Nick, there is no evidence 530 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,160 beyond the bodies of these animals, 531 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,320 but one of the ranchers told me that one night 532 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:07,000 he saw a round glowing disc, is all he could see, 533 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,920 put a beam right down into one of his pastures, 534 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,600 where they had been having mutilations 535 00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,120 around in a large area. 536 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,160 And in that beam of light, 537 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:20,080 he saw one of his animals. 538 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,600 The sheriff told me this himself. 539 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,360 He said, I know that the perpetrators 540 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,680 of these bloodless animal mutilations 541 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,160 are creatures from outer space. 542 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:36,920 And I felt like I had been hit with an electrical shock. 543 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640 Creatures from outer space 544 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,520 could extraterrestrials be responsible 545 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,000 for the bizarre animal mutilations 546 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,160 that have been reported by ranchers all over the country? 547 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:51,920 And if so, to what end? 548 00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,720 I have literally interviewed thousands now. 549 00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:00,760 You hear, I saw this kind of light. 550 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,280 I saw this beam lowering an animal to the pasture 551 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:05,800 and it was mutilated. 552 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,560 Somebody else saw this animal coming up in a beam of light 553 00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:11,520 and later it was found mutilated. 554 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:16,280 And what people were describing in the 20th century 555 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,680 are what people were describing in the third century 556 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:26,120 or 500 BC or going back in time. 557 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,720 And it's not just the United States, 558 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:33,000 it's Canada, Mexico, Central America, South America, 559 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,120 Australia, New Zealand, all of Western Europe 560 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,640 and going into Eastern Europe. 561 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,680 According to the FBI, 562 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,520 thousands of cattle mutilations 563 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,120 have been reported across the US since the 1970s. 564 00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,560 Linda's pioneering investigations 565 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,160 forced those who studied the UFO phenomenon 566 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,720 to consider a chilling proposition. 567 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,120 That extraterrestrial beings aren't just here to observe us. 568 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:06,840 They may have an agenda for our planet. 569 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,720 I think it's important to get across 570 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:14,720 that there are real people who have been afraid to come forward 571 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,720 and describe what they actually saw with their own eyes 572 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,000 because they didn't have video proof 573 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,600 and they don't want to be criticized. 574 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,920 Well, Linda, this has been absolutely invaluable 575 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,840 and we are all so lucky to have you on board with us. 576 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,760 So we thank you very much for your time. 577 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,360 Thank you, Georgie. 578 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,360 Wow, it was incredible. It was pretty interesting. 579 00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:39,040 She was like the first dogged reporter, 580 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:40,560 investigative reporter, you know, 581 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,560 phoning out people, going to those sites, interviewing people. 582 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,760 Yeah, it brings it home that these UFOs 583 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,560 have real, tangible, physical effects 584 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,240 and that means it's not just imagination, it's real. 585 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,240 By the way, the U.S. government is one of the last governments 586 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,240 to admit there is a UFO phenomenon, 587 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,240 but now we all actually know that the U.S. government 588 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,240 has been investigating this since the 40s. 589 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:13,240 Absolutely, and records, files, documents 590 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:17,240 are being declassified and released in record numbers. 591 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:19,240 In the United Kingdom, for example, 592 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:24,240 we've declassified and released about 60,000 pages of UFO documents, 593 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,240 some of which were very highly classified. 594 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:31,240 And so we get this fuller picture of what's going on. 595 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,240 And now, you know, almost everybody who has had an experience 596 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:41,240 feels compelled to come forward to tell their story. 597 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,240 I mean, this reminds me of one influential person 598 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,240 and modern pioneer, Bob Lazar. 599 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,240 Yes, he was somebody who first spoke out in 1989. 600 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,240 Bob Lazar is someone who became famous back in 1989 601 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,240 as a result of a very specific claim that he made. 602 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:06,240 And that claim is that he worked at a place just south of Area 51. 603 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,240 He called it S4. 604 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,240 He was interviewed by Las Vegas journalist George Knapp 605 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,240 in a series of very detailed interviews. 606 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,240 We put him on the air, blacked out his face, 607 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,240 and he told this incredible story. 608 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,240 Exactly what's going on up there? 609 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:30,240 Well, there's several, actually nine flying saucers, flying discs. 610 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:34,240 That are out there of extraterrestrial origin. 611 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,240 He said it's a secret that needed to be told to the world 612 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,240 that his life was in danger and that he was coming forward 613 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,240 and wanted to tell it. 614 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,240 I could feel my jaw dropping. Is this real? 615 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,240 We left there thinking, wow, if this is real, 616 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,240 this is a really big story. 617 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,240 So we decided, well, let's take the time and get this right. 618 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:00,240 Over the next eight months, 619 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,240 Knapp conducted a thorough investigation 620 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,240 of Lazar's sensational claims. 621 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,240 According to Lazar, before he worked at S4, 622 00:34:09,240 --> 00:34:13,240 he was a physicist at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, 623 00:34:13,240 --> 00:34:16,240 the facility that developed the atomic bomb. 624 00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:21,240 The central question for me was, did he work at Los Alamos? 625 00:34:22,240 --> 00:34:25,240 Because if he did, it would at least be plausible 626 00:34:25,240 --> 00:34:28,240 that if he worked there in a technical or scientific position 627 00:34:28,240 --> 00:34:31,240 that he could also be hired at a place like S4. 628 00:34:31,240 --> 00:34:34,240 So that's where we focused our attention. 629 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:36,240 I started calling Los Alamos at first. 630 00:34:36,240 --> 00:34:39,240 Nope, we have no record of a guy named Bob Lazar. 631 00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:42,240 I got the phone book from the Los Alamos lab. 632 00:34:42,240 --> 00:34:44,240 There's his name in the phone book. 633 00:34:44,240 --> 00:34:47,240 I called him back and said, hey, he's in the phone book. 634 00:34:47,240 --> 00:34:50,240 They finally sort of exasperatingly told me, 635 00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:53,240 yeah, we've got a record of him being here. 636 00:34:53,240 --> 00:34:58,240 We found Bob Lazar to be credible about his background, 637 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:02,240 his scientific training, where he had worked. 638 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,240 For more than two decades, 639 00:35:05,240 --> 00:35:08,240 Bob Lazar's critics claimed there was no evidence 640 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:12,240 of any secret military base in the Nevada desert. 641 00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:15,240 But then in 2013, 642 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:18,240 a Freedom of Information Act request 643 00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:23,240 forced the CIA to finally acknowledge that Area 51 is real. 644 00:35:24,240 --> 00:35:28,240 The story of Area 51, it exploded around the world. 645 00:35:29,240 --> 00:35:31,240 The reason you know about Area 51 646 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:35,240 is because Bob Lazar and George Knapp on the news, 1989, 647 00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:37,240 made it a household name. That's the reason. 648 00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,240 All of that came from Bob Lazar. 649 00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:45,240 To many researchers, the government's acknowledgement 650 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:50,240 of Area 51 established Lazar as more than a UFO pioneer. 651 00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:54,240 His inside access made him a whistleblower. 652 00:35:56,240 --> 00:35:58,240 My name's Bob Lazar. 653 00:35:58,240 --> 00:36:02,240 I'm known for working at a classified base 654 00:36:02,240 --> 00:36:06,240 known as S-4 out in the Nevada desert near Area 51. 655 00:36:06,240 --> 00:36:11,240 And there, we reverse engineered alien spacecraft. 656 00:36:12,240 --> 00:36:16,240 But could Lazar's sensational claims be true? 657 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:20,240 Former Air Force pilot Captain David Fruhoff 658 00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:26,240 worked at Area 51 from 1979 until 1985. 659 00:36:26,240 --> 00:36:30,240 And while he was never shown any alien technology, 660 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:33,240 he attests that Bob Lazar's account of the facility 661 00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:35,240 is entirely accurate. 662 00:36:36,240 --> 00:36:39,240 When I was there, we knew about S-4, 663 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:41,240 but we didn't know what they did. 664 00:36:42,240 --> 00:36:45,240 And I know people that had worked for me 665 00:36:45,240 --> 00:36:49,240 that after I left there, they had seen Bob Lazar there. 666 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:52,240 And they admitted that to me recently. 667 00:36:52,240 --> 00:36:55,240 Bob Lazar's statements and all the things he had said 668 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:59,240 have gelled now to the point where I think he's very credible. 669 00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:05,240 It doesn't necessarily prove every aspect of Bob Lazar's story, 670 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,240 but Bob Lazar said there was an Area 51, 671 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:11,240 and the government then said, yeah, okay, there is. 672 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,240 So it makes one wonder. 673 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:15,240 I mean, look, if Roswell was real, 674 00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:18,240 they had to take the wreckage somewhere, 675 00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:20,240 and of course it stands to reason. 676 00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:23,240 We'd want to know, can we build these things ourselves? 677 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,240 Can we develop this technology? 678 00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:27,240 You do it somewhere. 679 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,240 What better place than Area 51? 680 00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:32,240 And Area 51 today is part of our pop culture. 681 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,240 I mean, everyone knows about Area 51. 682 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:39,240 I think that anyone who genuinely looks into the UFO phenomenon, 683 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:43,240 you have to come away with some belief in it. 684 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,240 There's no getting away from the fact 685 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,240 that we are in a stronger position now in terms of evidence 686 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:51,240 than we've ever been. 687 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:53,240 And actually, when this is accepted, 688 00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:56,240 we are going to have to fundamentally rethink 689 00:37:56,240 --> 00:37:58,240 our place in the wider cosmos. 690 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:00,240 Right, yes. 691 00:38:03,240 --> 00:38:07,240 Well, gentlemen, this has been a fascinating conversation. 692 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:10,240 So with everything that we have so far, 693 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:12,240 cattle medallions, UFO sightings, 694 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:17,240 and also ancient stories that pretty much speak of the same thing, 695 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:21,240 you have to wonder, where does this all lead, 696 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:25,240 and will we soon come closer to the truth? 697 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:28,240 There's an amazing consistency to all of these reports, 698 00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,240 and when you put them all in totality, 699 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:34,240 it's just not something you can dismiss. 700 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:36,240 Something's going on. 701 00:38:36,240 --> 00:38:39,240 It is, and we're building up to something. 702 00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,240 My God! 703 00:38:42,240 --> 00:38:45,240 We have military pilots and radar operators 704 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,240 going on the record with this. 705 00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:50,240 Government officials who've been involved 706 00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:52,240 in these sorts of programs. 707 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:55,240 We have declassification of documents. 708 00:38:55,240 --> 00:39:00,240 It seems to be the beginning of disclosure, in a sense. 709 00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:04,240 Could disclosure, in fact, already be happening, 710 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:07,240 with evidence coming from many sources? 711 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:09,240 In December 2020, 712 00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:12,240 former CIA director John Brennan 713 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:15,240 made a surprising statement about UFOs 714 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:18,240 on the Conversations with Tyler podcast. 715 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:20,240 I think some of the phenomena we're going to be seeing 716 00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:22,240 continues to be unexplained 717 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:26,240 and might, in fact, be a different form of life. 718 00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:32,240 We are living through a remarkable turning point 719 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:35,240 right now in UFO studies. 720 00:39:35,240 --> 00:39:37,240 We don't know what these objects are, 721 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,240 but the fact that these objects are documented, 722 00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:44,240 backed by evidence, backed by a long record 723 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,240 of credible testimony is no longer in dispute. 724 00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:54,240 It's been over 70 years since these early pioneers 725 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,240 began collecting data and releasing it to the public, 726 00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,240 and we've really come a long way since then. 727 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,240 You never forget that all these people, 728 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,240 whether it's Jack Verlai, 729 00:40:05,240 --> 00:40:07,240 Dr. J. Allen Hynek, 730 00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:09,240 Carl Lawrenceon, 731 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:11,240 Linda Moulton Howe, 732 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:13,240 without them, we probably wouldn't be 733 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:17,240 in the fortunate position that we are in today. 734 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:21,240 All of these people went down a path 735 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:24,240 that was, at the time, unheard of. 736 00:40:24,240 --> 00:40:28,240 In a way, we are standing on the shoulders of giants. 737 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:31,240 Because through the work of the pioneers 738 00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:33,240 and through shows like Ancient Aliens, 739 00:40:33,240 --> 00:40:37,240 and now almost everybody who has had an experience 740 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:41,240 feels compelled to tell their story 741 00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:44,240 because it has become more accepted 742 00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:50,240 and the so-called zeitgeist has changed in our favor. 743 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:52,240 Well, I think you're right. 744 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:55,240 It's been a great conversation with you guys. 745 00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:58,240 It's just a fascinating subject, of course. 746 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:00,240 Thank you very much for your information, Nick. 747 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,240 And everything that we've talked about today illustrates this. 748 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:08,240 Disclosure that has been going on for a very long time. 749 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:10,240 And I can't wait to see what the future holds, 750 00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:12,240 and I thank you for your time. 751 00:41:12,240 --> 00:41:13,240 Thank you. 752 00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:14,240 Thanks, Nick.